Depending on the requirements the "right" server for virtualization could be almost any server. So selecting a server to be your virtualization platform is a process that involves answering a variety of quesitons. In this chat we will discuss the most commonly used servers for virtualization and why they are selected. Learning from others and what their experiences have been will be a focus of the chat.

Technical Community - Background Reading

Selecting A Virtualization Server TechCenter Home Page

Server Decision Matrix Wiki

Chat Transcript

		DELL-ToddM		Hello btucholka - welcome
		btucholka		Hi there
		btucholka		first time here...is this formal structure?
		DELL-ToddM		Not formal - we try to be as informal as possible - but still cover the topic at hand
		btucholka		ok, and that being virtualization
		DELL-ToddM		At the appointed time (about20 mins from now) I will intro the topic and see what everybody 's Qs are
		DELL-ToddM		Topic today is specifically - Choosing the right server for virtualization
		DELL-ToddM		Since there is no one answer - it is more of a disucssion of when to pick what
		DELL-ScottH		but i want to choose the "left" server
		DELL-ScottH		:-)
		DELL-ToddM		btucholka - Do you have anything you want to cover? (We can go off topic a bit if needed)
		btucholka		I got heads up about techcenter chat from rep yesterday, looking for some insight to teaming broadcom Nics in our Pedge servers and Cisco switches
		DELL-ToddM		It is generally a good idea to team nics with Esx - for redundancy mostly
		btucholka		we were trying to use Os bridge...w2k3 but ran into some issues...so looking for perhaps direction on setup of Broadcom onboards in Dell servers
		DELL-ToddM		I don't know what you mean by Os bridge.... And google gave me links to real bridges - like over rivers and stuff - Can you help me out?
		DELL-ScottH		also, not sure if we'll have the right resources on the chat today to address the question, but if you create a thread on one of the pages here, we might be able to direct a resource to answer it .... also www.dellcommunity.com would be good place to ask.
		btucholka		yeah, bridging is available from Win2003 server...basicaly trunking the 2 Nic ports for redunant network connection, ok I take it there
		DELL-ToddM		Is the Nic teaming part of a virutization solution - with Virtual Server or Vmware Server?
		btucholka		not just yet, just looking for this on standard production servers, but see this as a need when we get Vmware into place...having multiple network paths
		DELL-ToddM		What are you considering for virtualization? Vmware Esx? Hyper-v?
		btucholka		we just picked up the "starter kit" from Dell, 6 socket lic of Esx
		DELL-ToddM		Did you also get servers? 2950s or R805s?
		btucholka		no, not yet....that's why I'm here ::biglips
		DELL-ToddM		Excellent!
		btucholka		we arranged a 60day eval with Dell/vmware...so we've had general success, ready to move forward
		DELL-ToddM		I'm really ready to jump into the specifics of your environment - but we should probably wait another few minutes to see who else joins
		DELL-ToddM		We usually have people coming in a bit after the starting time :)
		btucholka		sounds good, I'll hang tight
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		DELL-ToddM		Hey Greg - How goes it?
		DELL-ScottH		hey Greg !
		ramseyg		hello . .pretty good. . pretty busy, but good
		ramseyg		and you?
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		DELL-ToddM		Hello David
		DELL-ScottH		same here
		DELL-ScottH		busy and good
		DELL-ToddM		Everything is going good here - just a bit busy keeping up with virtualization
		DELL-ToddM		We are a just a bit after 3 so - let's go ahead and get started.
		DELL-ToddM		Welcome to today's chat on Selecting a Virtualization Server
		DELL-ToddM		We know that there is no one server that will solve everybody's virtualizaiton needs
		DELL-ToddM		So we are putting together some wiki pages, chats, and blog entires to help gather info and provide some guidance
		DELL-ToddM		The landing page for the topic is http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/selecting+a+server+for+virtualization
		DELL-ToddM		Don't click!
		DELL-ToddM		Right click to avoid being exited from the chat
		ramseyg		:)
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		DELL-ScottH		welcome chris
		ChrisD		thanks
		DELL-ToddM		On this page you will be able to find all the info related to selecting a virtualization server
		DELL-ScottH		"action" ... "recent room history" will catch you up
		DELL-ToddM		including the transcript for this chat - once it is completed
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		DELL-ToddM		A brief history....
		DELL-ScottH		welcome mhenrichsen ... use "action" .. "recent room history" to catch up on the chat
		DELL-ToddM		I did a white paper a little while ago that advocated 2-sockets were better than 4-sockets for virtualization
		ChrisD		is this more focused for customers or Dell employees?
		DELL-ToddM		http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/advantages+of+dell+servers+over+hp+for+virtualization
		DELL-ScottH		@chris open to all, customers and Dell are here
		DELL-ToddM		The chat is open to both - intended to help customers decide what server to choose
		ChrisD		gotch
		DELL-ToddM		Since the whitepaper - the landscape has changed quite a bit
		DELL-ToddM		So now there are great choices in all server categories - and the best one depends on your requirements
		DELL-ToddM		So - btucholka is currently in the process of evaluting what server to choose
		DELL-ToddM		btucholka - can you give us a summary of your key requirements Or what are you currently considering?
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		btucholka		we are just starting to evaluate and get our feet wet with Vmware...basic network service consolidation...like print/dcs/etc
		DELL-ToddM		That's where most virtualization projects start - with consoidation of basic servers like that
		DELL-ToddM		Any estimate of number of Vms you will have?
		btucholka		I think just 4 per server to start
		DELL-ToddM		Are you planning to grow the number of Vms quite a bit?
		btucholka		not really on those initial servers...but see more robust and vmotion type needs on application servers (oracle As)
		DELL-ScottH		I think you'll find you will get quite a few more Vm's on a single server for consolidation efforts ... I did a paper last year that might be of interest -- http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/power+savings+through+consolidation
		btucholka		right now we have available 2-1950s with 12GB Ram to start
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		btucholka		dual core/proc 2.8s I should add
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		DELL-ScottH		welcome nik and robby, use "action" .. "recent room history" to catch up
		mhenrichsen		We are just beginning to look into virtualization. Would like to use for Qa environments, Sql 2000. How well does Sql work in a virtual environment? We currently have about 10 servers combinations of 4 -2650, 4 -2850 and 2 -2950.
		DELL-ToddM		For basic consolidation type servers - the 1950s that you have should be able to host 4 Vms each
		DELL-ToddM		mhenrichsen - I've done lots of testing with Sql on Vmware and I have found that it works very well
		DELL-ScottH		link to Todd's page with the work and results --> http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/performance+of+sql+server+2005+on+esx+server+3.5
		DELL-ToddM		As long as you size the storage properly
		DELL-ToddM		And ensure that the Vm has enough Cpu
		DELL-ToddM		So putting a Db that would fully consume a 2950iii - into a Vm is not a good idea
		mhenrichsen		How much does virtualization add to our space requirements?
		DELL-ToddM		Taking a database from a 2650 or 2850 and putting it into a Vm running on a 2950iii (or other current gen server) should work find
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		DELL-ToddM		Virtualization does not add any space requirements. Although it is typically on some type os San storage (iscsi or Fc)
		DELL-ScottH		welcome paul, use "action" .. "recent room history" to catch up.
		DELL-ToddM		The Vms running Sql Db will still require the same amount of disk space as a physical server would
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		mhenrichsen		Any issues with running Sql virtualized to an iscsi San?
		DELL-ToddM		No issues that i am aware of - as iscsi is supported by Esx
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		DELL-ToddM		There are three iscsi options from Dell that are supported with Esx - Md3000i, Equallogic, and Dell|emc Cx3
		DELL-ScottH		welcome mark and durkinr, use "action" .. "recent room history" to catch up
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		DELL-ToddM		You must still size storage correctly - just like physical server
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		DELL-ToddM		So you still need enough spindles to service the database - whether it is virtual or physical
		DELL-ToddM		What type / size Dbs do you have? How many disks do they require today?
		btucholka		we are working out a onsite demo of the Equallogic solution, it looks sweet
		DELL-ToddM		The equallogic stuff is very easy to use
		DELL-ToddM		In my opinion
		DELL-ScottH		Todd used to get in trouble with the Dell lawyers all the time :-)
		durkinr		Just append Imho to your chat room name.
		mhenrichsen		Right now about 100gb growing at a rate of 10 Gb per month. Application only been in service for 5 months.
		DELL-ToddM		I was never actually in trouble.......
		Robby		With databases and exchange, what are the key metrics to focus on the gage performance specs?
		DELL-ScottH		lol @durkinr
		Robby		that should read "to gauge"
		DELL-ToddM		The key metrics are disk sec per write and writes per second And same for reads
		DELL-ToddM		These will give you quick view of responsivness of disk Lun and the load that it is under in terms of I/os per second
		DELL-ToddM		This is for a high transcation rate Db
		DELL-ToddM		If you are doing large data transfers - then Mb/s can become important
		DELL-ToddM		Exchange is like a high transaction rate Db
		btucholka		there...you caught my Q, is Exchange 2007 a candidate for Virt?
		durkinr		I tried running iometer, but it fails to launch on my Winxp Sp2 box. Any tips? Or should I just use perfmon??
		DELL-ToddM		I actually presented Virtualizing Exhchange 2007 at Vmworld last sept
		DELL-ScottH		Exchange most definitely -- http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/exchange+and+vmware
		DELL-ToddM		I tested upto 2000 users per Vm and found good performance
		durkinr		I saw your show, it was interesting. Didn't realize it was you until now of course.
		DELL-ToddM		The respone times were slower than physical servers - but not by very much
		Mark		he's hard to recognize online - he's much shorter
		durkinr		Yes, then you said split it into a second Vm for > 2000 users, if I remember correctly.
		DELL-ToddM		Cool - I thought that I saw you there :)
		DELL-ScottH		Todd had a chat on virt exchange a couple months back , transcript is here -- http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/02-12-2008+chat+log
		DELL-ToddM		Performance with 1000 users in a Vm was a bit better and Vmotion and Ha recovery times were also better with 1000 users
		durkinr		me and 1000 other clowns with huge backpacks
		DELL-ScottH		ohhh was that you ? :-)
		DELL-ToddM		So I do think that 1000 users per Vm is better than 2000 - but the peformance of both was pretty good
		btucholka		so what if I only have 250 mail boxes, worth the effort/cost/lic?
		durkinr		Yes, I was the pasty-looking nerd with glasses. Remember?
		DELL-ToddM		250 mailboxes will work very good - as long as you size the Vm and storage correctly
		DELL-ToddM		You can use our Exchange sizing tool for physical servers to get a sizing for the storage
		DELL-ScottH		yeah, I was the one with the autographed william shatner star trek autobiography !
		DELL-ToddM		I would think that 1 vcpu would be enough
		DELL-ToddM		The beauty of virtualization is that you can always add more Cpu and memory if needed
		DELL-ToddM		Exchange is disk and memory intensive -
		durkinr		http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2711031706321114232
		DELL-ToddM		So you need to plan on having a server with enough Ram
		durkinr		Bill Shatner - Rocket Man- Spoken Word.
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		DELL-ScottH		yeah, we have this "smart" filter at work :-) ...
		DELL-ScottH		but ! .. I have seen that !
		DELL-ToddM		In environments where you are going to have multiple Exchange Vms - a server with lots of memory capacity is good
		DELL-ScottH		looks like Mark is enjoying it though
		DELL-ToddM		The leading candidates would be the R805, R900 and R905
		DELL-ToddM		The R805 is two socket that go up to 64GB with 4 Gb Dimms and the R900 and R905 are four socket servers can go upto the 128gb
		DELL-ToddM		So all have the same amount of Ram per processor
		DELL-ToddM		Those that joined recently - feel free to jump in
		durkinr		We have signed up for the Dell Virtual Readiness Assessment. They profile your systems for 2 weeks then give you a vmware solution.
		DELL-ToddM		The readiness assessment reports are very cool
		DELL-ToddM		They do a good job of telling you how to virtualize
		durkinr		That way if it sucks, I can blame you guys.
		durkinr		;)
		DELL-ScottH		If it sucks, we'll be here to tell you how to make it Un-suck !
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		durkinr		We have two Equallogic Ps5000x arrays...i'm hoping they don't recommend any Emc Fc gear.
		DELL-ScottH		Mark, how'd you like Rocketman ? :-)
		DELL-ToddM		Even after the assesment - you may have some choices in terms of the exact type of servers to use
		Robby		tood, what is the exchange sizing tool, and where do i find it?
		Mark		silly proxy
		durkinr		Yes, I was unaware of the R805. At 64GB that might be the sweet spot for us.
		DELL-ToddM		You can use either type of storage - just might have to add more Equallogic shelves if it is determined that you need more spindles
		DELL-ToddM		Working on the link to the Exchange sizing tool....
		durkinr		The Eq shelves are $$ though. Adding 1-2 more would be, let's see $$ + $$ = $$$$.
		DELL-ToddM		Thanks for bringing me back
		DELL-ScottH		ready ... hope this link works -- http://advisors.dell.com/advisorweb/advisor.aspx?advisor=0c8173c7-dedd-41e4-8b4a-d2bd19c681b8&c=us&l=en&cs=555
		DELL-ScottH		urls are soooo short nowadays
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		DELL-ScottH		actually 4*$
		Robby		appreciate it
		DELL-ToddM		The cost of Equallogic is generally less than Dell|emc Cx arrays
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		DELL-ToddM		And more than Powervault Md3000i
		DELL-ToddM		The cool thing about the Equallogic is that you get all software options - included
		durkinr		Yes the Md3000i is not as 'feature rich' as the Eq stuff.
		DELL-ToddM		The Md3000i is entry level - and doesn't have nearly the features of the Equallogic arrays
		DELL-ToddM		It may be that the advisor will say that you have enough storage - and don't need anything additional
		durkinr		I find entry-level to be a scary term when used for It gear. Thankfully, so does my boss.
		DELL-ToddM		durkinr - Do you have a preference for the server that you will use for Esx?
		DELL-ScottH		durkinr, you get props for quote-of-the-week !
		durkinr		Not really. I'm familiar with 2950s, but the 805 might be preferable. I guess it all depends on what resources we need, as identified by the Vra.
		Robby		correct me if I'm wrong, but the 2950 limit out at 2 processors and what Gb Ram?
		durkinr		And for the other people here....no, I don;t work for Dell or Equallogic.
		DELL-ToddM		I think that the R805 is very good fit for many
		durkinr		32 Gb
		DELL-ToddM		I have started a page that has all the servers side by side, with points below for each -
		DELL-ToddM		I'm calling it the decision matrix - http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/virtualization+server+decision+matrix
		Robby		for that reason, we wwnt with the r900s. It is probably overkill for our situation, but we wanted the scalability down the road.
		DELL-ToddM		The r900 provides twice as many memory slots and twice as many processors
		DELL-ToddM		So it clearly has more scalability
		DELL-ToddM		One nice thing about virtualization is that it also scales well with additional servers
		DELL-ToddM		With Vmotion you can easily bring a new server into your farm and add Vms to it
		DELL-ToddM		But - if you have to get as much as you can up front - the R900 may be a better choice
		DELL-ToddM		Or the R905 (which is Amd four socket)
		durkinr		But you need to watch the Cpu architecture, I've learned. That's why we will probably buy 3 host servers up-front.
		DELL-ToddM		True - Vmotion does not work across all servers - it depends on Cpu generation as well as Intel vs Amd
		DELL-ToddM		There is a matrix that we have on the dell.com site that shows Vmmotion compatability by server model
		DELL-ScottH		The Dell Virt Engineering team puts out a Vmotion compatability matix that helps -- http://advisors.dell.com/advisorweb/advisor.aspx?advisor=0c8173c7-dedd-41e4-8b4a-d2bd19c681b8&c=us&l=en&cs=555
		DELL-ScottH		not that one -- http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/vmotion_compatibility_matix.pdf
		DELL-ScottH		that one
		durkinr		I'll check out the vmotion link, thanks
		DELL-ToddM		This is one reason why you will see people choose either Amd or Intel and stick with them across several server types
		DELL-ToddM		But just the Amd or Intel doesn't guarantee that Vmotion will work - so you need the link that Scott gave above
		DELL-ToddM		Anybody here a fan of using blades for virtualization?
		durkinr		We don't have blades but have considered it. Any pros and cons you can list?
		mhenrichsen		I am considering consolidation of servers and would like to minimize backup power needs.
		DELL-ToddM		The big advantages, in my opinion, are reduced cables, higher density, lower power consumption, and reduced number of needed network ports
		DELL-ToddM		The blades do require 220 power - which most datacenters have
		DELL-ToddM		And you really need to be using most of the chassis (16 blades max) for the econimic and power advantages to play out
		DELL-ToddM		mhenrichsen - can you elaborate on what you mean by minimize backup power?
		DELL-ScottH		you're already going to save a ton on power consumption with consolidation if you take the old servers out of service -- I did a study -- http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/power+savings+through+consolidation
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		mhenrichsen		We have around 20 servers right now some pushing 10 years old. Are Ups's are to the point of needing replaced.
		DELL-ToddM		By consolidating to fewer servers with vmware - you will need less Ups units
		DELL-ScottH		286's ? You're not with nasa and the space shuttle program are you ? :-)
		DELL-ToddM		Scott's study was with 3 year old servers - and he got some really compelling numbers in terms of power savings with consolidation
		Mark		you could also perform a physical to virtual conversion of those older servers, so that you don't have to rebuild them, assuming the Os isn't so out of date
		DELL-ScottH		yeah, see the study I pointed to, you can most likely consolidate all onto one, but do two for redundancy, and I have a demo of phys to virtual conversion .. used that to consolidate my workloads
		DELL-ScottH		it's describes exactly what you are trying to do
		mhenrichsen		Oldest machines 486 Prosignias purchased 1998 Nt4
		DELL-ScottH		holy !!! cromollly ! call the smithsonian !
		DELL-ToddM		btucholka - Did you get the info you were looking for to help you with your decision around servers?
		DELL-ScottH		but a testament to "if it ain't broke -- don't fix it ! "
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		btucholka		yes, looks like we should be able to start with the general network service consolidation with servers on hand, the 2x1950s
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		DELL-ToddM		I agree - and you should probably look at the 2950iii or R805 for future
		DELL-ToddM		I want to thank everybody for attending today's chat!
		DELL-ToddM		Great discussion
		btucholka		later guys...thanks!
		DELL-ToddM		We are going to continue the conversation on the site with discussion threads and another chat next week
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		DELL-ToddM		Same bat time, same bat channel
		DELL-ScottH		thanks everybody !
		DELL-ToddM		Probably doesn't translate if you didn't watch Batman as a kid - so same time and place next week
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