Depending on the requirements the "right" server for virtualization could be almost any server. So selecting a server to be your virtualization platform is a process that involves answering a variety of quesitons. In this chat we will discuss the most commonly used servers for virtualization and why they are selected. Learning from others and what their experiences have been will be a focus of the chat.

Technical Community - Background Reading

Selecting A Virtualization Server TechCenter Home Page

Server Decision Matrix Wiki

Chat Transcript

	DELL-ToddM	Hello btucholka - welcome
	btucholka	Hi there
	btucholka	first time here...is this formal structure?
	DELL-ToddM	Not formal - we try to be as informal as possible - but still cover the topic at hand
	btucholka	ok, and that being virtualization
	DELL-ToddM	At the appointed time (about20 mins from now) I will intro the topic and see what everybody 's Qs are
	DELL-ToddM	Topic today is specifically - Choosing the right server for virtualization
	DELL-ToddM	Since there is no one answer - it is more of a disucssion of when to pick what
	DELL-ScottH	but i want to choose the "left" server
	DELL-ScottH	:-)
	DELL-ToddM	btucholka - Do you have anything you want to cover? (We can go off topic a bit if needed)
	btucholka	I got heads up about techcenter chat from rep yesterday, looking for some insight to teaming broadcom Nics in our Pedge servers and Cisco switches
	DELL-ToddM	It is generally a good idea to team nics with Esx - for redundancy mostly
	btucholka	we were trying to use Os bridge...w2k3 but ran into some issues...so looking for perhaps direction on setup of Broadcom onboards in Dell servers
	DELL-ToddM	I don't know what you mean by Os bridge.... And google gave me links to real bridges - like over rivers and stuff - Can you help me out?
	DELL-ScottH	also, not sure if we'll have the right resources on the chat today to address the question, but if you create a thread on one of the pages here, we might be able to direct a resource to answer it .... also www.dellcommunity.com would be good place to ask.
	btucholka	yeah, bridging is available from Win2003 server...basicaly trunking the 2 Nic ports for redunant network connection, ok I take it there
	DELL-ToddM	Is the Nic teaming part of a virutization solution - with Virtual Server or Vmware Server?
	btucholka	not just yet, just looking for this on standard production servers, but see this as a need when we get Vmware into place...having multiple network paths
	DELL-ToddM	What are you considering for virtualization? Vmware Esx? Hyper-v?
	btucholka	we just picked up the "starter kit" from Dell, 6 socket lic of Esx
	DELL-ToddM	Did you also get servers? 2950s or R805s?
	btucholka	no, not yet....that's why I'm here ::biglips
	DELL-ToddM	Excellent!
	btucholka	we arranged a 60day eval with Dell/vmware...so we've had general success, ready to move forward
	DELL-ToddM	I'm really ready to jump into the specifics of your environment - but we should probably wait another few minutes to see who else joins
	DELL-ToddM	We usually have people coming in a bit after the starting time :)
	btucholka	sounds good, I'll hang tight
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	DELL-ToddM	Hey Greg - How goes it?
	DELL-ScottH	hey Greg !
	ramseyg	hello . .pretty good. . pretty busy, but good
	ramseyg	and you?
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	DELL-ToddM	Hello David
	DELL-ScottH	same here
	DELL-ScottH	busy and good
	DELL-ToddM	Everything is going good here - just a bit busy keeping up with virtualization
	DELL-ToddM	We are a just a bit after 3 so - let's go ahead and get started.
	DELL-ToddM	Welcome to today's chat on Selecting a Virtualization Server
	DELL-ToddM	We know that there is no one server that will solve everybody's virtualizaiton needs
	DELL-ToddM	So we are putting together some wiki pages, chats, and blog entires to help gather info and provide some guidance
	DELL-ToddM	The landing page for the topic is http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/selecting+a+server+for+virtualization
	DELL-ToddM	Don't click!
	DELL-ToddM	Right click to avoid being exited from the chat
	ramseyg	:)
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	DELL-ScottH	welcome chris
	ChrisD	thanks
	DELL-ToddM	On this page you will be able to find all the info related to selecting a virtualization server
	DELL-ScottH	"action" ... "recent room history" will catch you up
	DELL-ToddM	including the transcript for this chat - once it is completed
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	DELL-ToddM	A brief history....
	DELL-ScottH	welcome mhenrichsen ... use "action" .. "recent room history" to catch up on the chat
	DELL-ToddM	I did a white paper a little while ago that advocated 2-sockets were better than 4-sockets for virtualization
	ChrisD	is this more focused for customers or Dell employees?
	DELL-ToddM	http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/advantages+of+dell+servers+over+hp+for+virtualization
	DELL-ScottH	@chris open to all, customers and Dell are here
	DELL-ToddM	The chat is open to both - intended to help customers decide what server to choose
	ChrisD	gotch
	DELL-ToddM	Since the whitepaper - the landscape has changed quite a bit
	DELL-ToddM	So now there are great choices in all server categories - and the best one depends on your requirements
	DELL-ToddM	So - btucholka is currently in the process of evaluting what server to choose
	DELL-ToddM	btucholka - can you give us a summary of your key requirements Or what are you currently considering?
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	btucholka	we are just starting to evaluate and get our feet wet with Vmware...basic network service consolidation...like print/dcs/etc
	DELL-ToddM	That's where most virtualization projects start - with consoidation of basic servers like that
	DELL-ToddM	Any estimate of number of Vms you will have?
	btucholka	I think just 4 per server to start
	DELL-ToddM	Are you planning to grow the number of Vms quite a bit?
	btucholka	not really on those initial servers...but see more robust and vmotion type needs on application servers (oracle As)
	DELL-ScottH	I think you'll find you will get quite a few more Vm's on a single server for consolidation efforts ... I did a paper last year that might be of interest -- http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/power+savings+through+consolidation
	btucholka	right now we have available 2-1950s with 12GB Ram to start
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	btucholka	dual core/proc 2.8s I should add
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	DELL-ScottH	welcome nik and robby, use "action" .. "recent room history" to catch up
	mhenrichsen	We are just beginning to look into virtualization. Would like to use for Qa environments, Sql 2000. How well does Sql work in a virtual environment? We currently have about 10 servers combinations of 4 -2650, 4 -2850 and 2 -2950.
	DELL-ToddM	For basic consolidation type servers - the 1950s that you have should be able to host 4 Vms each
	DELL-ToddM	mhenrichsen - I've done lots of testing with Sql on Vmware and I have found that it works very well
	DELL-ScottH	link to Todd's page with the work and results --> http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/performance+of+sql+server+2005+on+esx+server+3.5
	DELL-ToddM	As long as you size the storage properly
	DELL-ToddM	And ensure that the Vm has enough Cpu
	DELL-ToddM	So putting a Db that would fully consume a 2950iii - into a Vm is not a good idea
	mhenrichsen	How much does virtualization add to our space requirements?
	DELL-ToddM	Taking a database from a 2650 or 2850 and putting it into a Vm running on a 2950iii (or other current gen server) should work find
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	DELL-ToddM	Virtualization does not add any space requirements. Although it is typically on some type os San storage (iscsi or Fc)
	DELL-ScottH	welcome paul, use "action" .. "recent room history" to catch up.
	DELL-ToddM	The Vms running Sql Db will still require the same amount of disk space as a physical server would
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	mhenrichsen	Any issues with running Sql virtualized to an iscsi San?
	DELL-ToddM	No issues that i am aware of - as iscsi is supported by Esx
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	DELL-ToddM	There are three iscsi options from Dell that are supported with Esx - Md3000i, Equallogic, and Dell|emc Cx3
	DELL-ScottH	welcome mark and durkinr, use "action" .. "recent room history" to catch up
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	DELL-ToddM	You must still size storage correctly - just like physical server
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	DELL-ToddM	So you still need enough spindles to service the database - whether it is virtual or physical
	DELL-ToddM	What type / size Dbs do you have? How many disks do they require today?
	btucholka	we are working out a onsite demo of the Equallogic solution, it looks sweet
	DELL-ToddM	The equallogic stuff is very easy to use
	DELL-ToddM	In my opinion
	DELL-ScottH	Todd used to get in trouble with the Dell lawyers all the time :-)
	durkinr	Just append Imho to your chat room name.
	mhenrichsen	Right now about 100gb growing at a rate of 10 Gb per month. Application only been in service for 5 months.
	DELL-ToddM	I was never actually in trouble.......
	Robby	With databases and exchange, what are the key metrics to focus on the gage performance specs?
	DELL-ScottH	lol @durkinr
	Robby	that should read "to gauge"
	DELL-ToddM	The key metrics are disk sec per write and writes per second And same for reads
	DELL-ToddM	These will give you quick view of responsivness of disk Lun and the load that it is under in terms of I/os per second
	DELL-ToddM	This is for a high transcation rate Db
	DELL-ToddM	If you are doing large data transfers - then Mb/s can become important
	DELL-ToddM	Exchange is like a high transaction rate Db
	btucholka	there...you caught my Q, is Exchange 2007 a candidate for Virt?
	durkinr	I tried running iometer, but it fails to launch on my Winxp Sp2 box. Any tips? Or should I just use perfmon??
	DELL-ToddM	I actually presented Virtualizing Exhchange 2007 at Vmworld last sept
	DELL-ScottH	Exchange most definitely -- http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/exchange+and+vmware
	DELL-ToddM	I tested upto 2000 users per Vm and found good performance
	durkinr	I saw your show, it was interesting. Didn't realize it was you until now of course.
	DELL-ToddM	The respone times were slower than physical servers - but not by very much
	Mark	he's hard to recognize online - he's much shorter
	durkinr	Yes, then you said split it into a second Vm for > 2000 users, if I remember correctly.
	DELL-ToddM	Cool - I thought that I saw you there :)
	DELL-ScottH	Todd had a chat on virt exchange a couple months back , transcript is here -- http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/02-12-2008+chat+log
	DELL-ToddM	Performance with 1000 users in a Vm was a bit better and Vmotion and Ha recovery times were also better with 1000 users
	durkinr	me and 1000 other clowns with huge backpacks
	DELL-ScottH	ohhh was that you ? :-)
	DELL-ToddM	So I do think that 1000 users per Vm is better than 2000 - but the peformance of both was pretty good
	btucholka	so what if I only have 250 mail boxes, worth the effort/cost/lic?
	durkinr	Yes, I was the pasty-looking nerd with glasses. Remember?
	DELL-ToddM	250 mailboxes will work very good - as long as you size the Vm and storage correctly
	DELL-ToddM	You can use our Exchange sizing tool for physical servers to get a sizing for the storage
	DELL-ScottH	yeah, I was the one with the autographed william shatner star trek autobiography !
	DELL-ToddM	I would think that 1 vcpu would be enough
	DELL-ToddM	The beauty of virtualization is that you can always add more Cpu and memory if needed
	DELL-ToddM	Exchange is disk and memory intensive -
	durkinr	http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2711031706321114232
	DELL-ToddM	So you need to plan on having a server with enough Ram
	durkinr	Bill Shatner - Rocket Man- Spoken Word.
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	DELL-ScottH	yeah, we have this "smart" filter at work :-) ...
	DELL-ScottH	but ! .. I have seen that !
	DELL-ToddM	In environments where you are going to have multiple Exchange Vms - a server with lots of memory capacity is good
	DELL-ScottH	looks like Mark is enjoying it though
	DELL-ToddM	The leading candidates would be the R805, R900 and R905
	DELL-ToddM	The R805 is two socket that go up to 64GB with 4 Gb Dimms and the R900 and R905 are four socket servers can go upto the 128gb
	DELL-ToddM	So all have the same amount of Ram per processor
	DELL-ToddM	Those that joined recently - feel free to jump in
	durkinr	We have signed up for the Dell Virtual Readiness Assessment. They profile your systems for 2 weeks then give you a vmware solution.
	DELL-ToddM	The readiness assessment reports are very cool
	DELL-ToddM	They do a good job of telling you how to virtualize
	durkinr	That way if it sucks, I can blame you guys.
	durkinr	;)
	DELL-ScottH	If it sucks, we'll be here to tell you how to make it Un-suck !
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	durkinr	We have two Equallogic Ps5000x arrays...i'm hoping they don't recommend any Emc Fc gear.
	DELL-ScottH	Mark, how'd you like Rocketman ? :-)
	DELL-ToddM	Even after the assesment - you may have some choices in terms of the exact type of servers to use
	Robby	tood, what is the exchange sizing tool, and where do i find it?
	Mark	silly proxy
	durkinr	Yes, I was unaware of the R805. At 64GB that might be the sweet spot for us.
	DELL-ToddM	You can use either type of storage - just might have to add more Equallogic shelves if it is determined that you need more spindles
	DELL-ToddM	Working on the link to the Exchange sizing tool....
	durkinr	The Eq shelves are $$ though. Adding 1-2 more would be, let's see $$ + $$ = $$$$.
	DELL-ToddM	Thanks for bringing me back
	DELL-ScottH	ready ... hope this link works -- http://advisors.dell.com/advisorweb/advisor.aspx?advisor=0c8173c7-dedd-41e4-8b4a-d2bd19c681b8&c=us&l=en&cs=555
	DELL-ScottH	urls are soooo short nowadays
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	DELL-ScottH	actually 4*$
	Robby	appreciate it
	DELL-ToddM	The cost of Equallogic is generally less than Dell|emc Cx arrays
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	DELL-ToddM	And more than Powervault Md3000i
	DELL-ToddM	The cool thing about the Equallogic is that you get all software options - included
	durkinr	Yes the Md3000i is not as 'feature rich' as the Eq stuff.
	DELL-ToddM	The Md3000i is entry level - and doesn't have nearly the features of the Equallogic arrays
	DELL-ToddM	It may be that the advisor will say that you have enough storage - and don't need anything additional
	durkinr	I find entry-level to be a scary term when used for It gear. Thankfully, so does my boss.
	DELL-ToddM	durkinr - Do you have a preference for the server that you will use for Esx?
	DELL-ScottH	durkinr, you get props for quote-of-the-week !
	durkinr	Not really. I'm familiar with 2950s, but the 805 might be preferable. I guess it all depends on what resources we need, as identified by the Vra.
	Robby	correct me if I'm wrong, but the 2950 limit out at 2 processors and what Gb Ram?
	durkinr	And for the other people here....no, I don;t work for Dell or Equallogic.
	DELL-ToddM	I think that the R805 is very good fit for many
	durkinr	32 Gb
	DELL-ToddM	I have started a page that has all the servers side by side, with points below for each -
	DELL-ToddM	I'm calling it the decision matrix - http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/virtualization+server+decision+matrix
	Robby	for that reason, we wwnt with the r900s. It is probably overkill for our situation, but we wanted the scalability down the road.
	DELL-ToddM	The r900 provides twice as many memory slots and twice as many processors
	DELL-ToddM	So it clearly has more scalability
	DELL-ToddM	One nice thing about virtualization is that it also scales well with additional servers
	DELL-ToddM	With Vmotion you can easily bring a new server into your farm and add Vms to it
	DELL-ToddM	But - if you have to get as much as you can up front - the R900 may be a better choice
	DELL-ToddM	Or the R905 (which is Amd four socket)
	durkinr	But you need to watch the Cpu architecture, I've learned. That's why we will probably buy 3 host servers up-front.
	DELL-ToddM	True - Vmotion does not work across all servers - it depends on Cpu generation as well as Intel vs Amd
	DELL-ToddM	There is a matrix that we have on the dell.com site that shows Vmmotion compatability by server model
	DELL-ScottH	The Dell Virt Engineering team puts out a Vmotion compatability matix that helps -- http://advisors.dell.com/advisorweb/advisor.aspx?advisor=0c8173c7-dedd-41e4-8b4a-d2bd19c681b8&c=us&l=en&cs=555
	DELL-ScottH	not that one -- http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/vmotion_compatibility_matix.pdf
	DELL-ScottH	that one
	durkinr	I'll check out the vmotion link, thanks
	DELL-ToddM	This is one reason why you will see people choose either Amd or Intel and stick with them across several server types
	DELL-ToddM	But just the Amd or Intel doesn't guarantee that Vmotion will work - so you need the link that Scott gave above
	DELL-ToddM	Anybody here a fan of using blades for virtualization?
	durkinr	We don't have blades but have considered it. Any pros and cons you can list?
	mhenrichsen	I am considering consolidation of servers and would like to minimize backup power needs.
	DELL-ToddM	The big advantages, in my opinion, are reduced cables, higher density, lower power consumption, and reduced number of needed network ports
	DELL-ToddM	The blades do require 220 power - which most datacenters have
	DELL-ToddM	And you really need to be using most of the chassis (16 blades max) for the econimic and power advantages to play out
	DELL-ToddM	mhenrichsen - can you elaborate on what you mean by minimize backup power?
	DELL-ScottH	you're already going to save a ton on power consumption with consolidation if you take the old servers out of service -- I did a study -- http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/power+savings+through+consolidation
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	mhenrichsen	We have around 20 servers right now some pushing 10 years old. Are Ups's are to the point of needing replaced.
	DELL-ToddM	By consolidating to fewer servers with vmware - you will need less Ups units
	DELL-ScottH	286's ? You're not with nasa and the space shuttle program are you ? :-)
	DELL-ToddM	Scott's study was with 3 year old servers - and he got some really compelling numbers in terms of power savings with consolidation
	Mark	you could also perform a physical to virtual conversion of those older servers, so that you don't have to rebuild them, assuming the Os isn't so out of date
	DELL-ScottH	yeah, see the study I pointed to, you can most likely consolidate all onto one, but do two for redundancy, and I have a demo of phys to virtual conversion .. used that to consolidate my workloads
	DELL-ScottH	it's describes exactly what you are trying to do
	mhenrichsen	Oldest machines 486 Prosignias purchased 1998 Nt4
	DELL-ScottH	holy !!! cromollly ! call the smithsonian !
	DELL-ToddM	btucholka - Did you get the info you were looking for to help you with your decision around servers?
	DELL-ScottH	but a testament to "if it ain't broke -- don't fix it ! "
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	btucholka	yes, looks like we should be able to start with the general network service consolidation with servers on hand, the 2x1950s
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	DELL-ToddM	I agree - and you should probably look at the 2950iii or R805 for future
	DELL-ToddM	I want to thank everybody for attending today's chat!
	DELL-ToddM	Great discussion
	btucholka	later guys...thanks!
	DELL-ToddM	We are going to continue the conversation on the site with discussion threads and another chat next week
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	DELL-ToddM	Same bat time, same bat channel
	DELL-ScottH	thanks everybody !
	DELL-ToddM	Probably doesn't translate if you didn't watch Batman as a kid - so same time and place next week
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